Omron CP1H-X40DT-D PLC

[Lez Carr]

I am a newbie here so please bare with me, I support our machinery which up to now has been all mechanical & electrical, we received a new machine which was installed by ourselves. we have two more on order, but the new machines are fitted with a PLC (CP1H-X40DT-D) Omron, the touch screen is TH6070IH, it also has some expansion boards. all is well at the moment, but the machines come from china the English language is not brilliant. and we are in a position to maintain these ourselves the support from china is non existent, so I flew over to the factory to get some training, well I though that was the reason I was going, but the PLC engine had different idea's. All I wanted to do is to backup the software and restore to a new PLC in the event of a breakdown, and also tidy up the English, so operators can understand the error messages etc. The PLC engineer would not allow me to backup or edit the English so we are stuck in a stalemate. Can anyone offer me any options, as I will have three machines all with the same PLC but different ladder programs and no way to support it. As I understand that the software is password protected. Any help will be greatly received.

[gleblanc]

Normally when we buy machines there is some sort of payment schedule arranged at the time the machine is commissioned. Since you are the customer, and some part of that payment is probably contingent on your sign off, I would withhold payment until the machine builder gives in to your request. Surely you will need support from your company's management, but I would expect that they would support you, especially if you make it clear why you want to make changes. BTW, why does the PLC engineer at the factory think you are there?

[Crossbow]

I agree. People purchasing equipment with PLCs on board need to be sure to specify in the original purchase request that they controller will NOT have passwords so that local engineers can support the machine after its installation. This is written into all requests for bids I have seen in the past couple years. There's no legal way around the password, and discussing methods to bypass it is against TOS of this site, so let's keep the topic on getting the OEM to provide you with a serviceable machine. I agree that you should not purchase the other 2 systems until they agree to give you the passwords for all 3, or remove the protection from the code if they won't share the password.

[BobB]

Whenever a contract is signed it should include the release of the PLC password after a year and a day - end of warranty - and not before. It is only fair that the OEM, who is responsible for the correct operation of the machine through the warranty period otherwise someone could change the program and crash the machine/process. At the end of the warranty period should be when the password is released to the client. It is not quite as simple as that - then there is the legal issue of intellectual property!!! That is a whole new ball game!

[Crossbow]

All the contracts I've seen always stated the program cannot be password protected. I agree it's up to the manufacturer to support in warranty, but they can't always be on site in 5 minutes when the machine is down and the company is losing money. And they're sure not going to pay for the lost revenues. The company's own maintenance team needs complete access to troubleshoot when a problem occurs. I've been in plants where every MINUTE of downtime is $10,000 of lost production. No way they would agree to wait for a service tech to come out from the manufacturer. I have NEVER password protected a single machine I've built.

[panic mode]

observe how machine functions or should function, then write your own program.

[lostcontrol]

Makes it hard when the OEM is not providing the support though. In this case, the OEM is not helping at all & is off-shore which is much more difficult. I had a startup company here buy some equipment from China, thought they were getting the engineers out to install & train, yet no-one showed up, so they stuck with some lemon machines that they had to nurse to get going.. Intellectual property is an interesting one, I dont believe in it myself. However, if another integrator blatantly copies something that I had done, & got the job because of it I would not be that impressed. Have heard a lot of people bang on about IP, unless you've developed some awesome process that has complex (or simple) control functions, then its just code. Sorry Bob

[Crossbow]

lostcontrol, that's like saying movies, music and books also should not be copyrighted. They are the results of someone's ideas, investment, and effort. They are the property of that someone, like it or not. Someone put a lot of effort and time into the program. This costs the company money. It is their right to protect that investment from their competitors. I would be mad as hell if I wrote code for a machine and spent hours of company time and money writing it only to have one of my competitors upload it and duplicate my efforts with no cost to them. 20 years ago when I built PCs, I bought a legal licensed copy of Windows for each machine. my competition put the same copy on 100 computers, lowering his costs and allowing him to undercut my business. This is not different.