What do I need to get started?

[Thermo]

Hi All,

Another Newbie here.  I've had limited contact with PLCs  and their programs over the last few decades, but not a lot.  (I'm more of an analog control/DCS/process control type - sorry!)

I may have the opportunity to acquire an Omron CPM1A PLC for a good price, just to tinker with, teach myself more about programming these little beasts and maybe use on a 'home brewed' project.

Of course, it will be no use to me if I can;t talk to it.  Can the PLC Gurus here tell me what is the minimum I need in the way of software and connection cables etc.?.  If possible, I'd like to use a laptop with Windows 7 and a USB port on the laptop.  I can possibly use older laptops with Windows Xp or even Windows 98 and a RS232 serial port, if needed to run obsolete software and/or cables.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Ian

[Crossbow]

The CPM1A PLC had a special programming port.  If you can find a CPM1-CIF01, that converts the programming port to a normal RS232 and then the cable can be easily made.  The progamming port to serial cable direct is CQM1-CIF02.  Don't know what luck you will have for the USB port.

Software could be old (obsolete) Syswin, or CX-Programmer which is current and supports latest OS.

[Thermo]

Thanks for you help, Crossbow.

I downloaded (I think) a copy of SYSWIN as part of an online PLC tutorial book (http://www.mikroe.com/old/books/plcbook/plcbook.htm).  However, I can't get it to install on my Windows 7 Toshiba laptop, even in 'XP compatible mode'.  Do you know here I could get a legal copy of SYSWIN that will run under Win 7?

Other posts on here suggest CX-Programmer is now part of CX-One, the 'all singing, all dancing' version of Omron software that is beyond the means of your average tinkerer.  Is it possible to buy a legal copy of CX-Programmer, albeit obsolete, that will let me access all the functions of the CPM1A?

I have seen a USB version of the  CQM1-CIF02 on eBay from Hong Kong (yes, I know! - but it's cheap enough to give it a try)

Thanks again,

Ian

[Crossbow]

You will never get Syswin working on that PC.  Syswin has been obsolete since Windows 98.  It's not sold or supported anymore.

CX-Programmer is not obsolete, you can contact any distributor to buy a copy.

As for knockoff cables and USB converters, be careful, most are crap.

 

[Thermo]

Hi Crossbow,

Thank again.  I certainly would like to buy legit software and cables if possible and not prohibitively expensive, but I have sent two website enquiries and two emails to Omron Asia Pacific now and have yet to receive any reply at all.  (If anyone reading this has contacts with Omron AP, please put a rocket under them!  This is not a good way to encourage someone trying to learn to use their products...)

I managed to purchase a used CPM1A-30CDT-D and 20 EDT (CP1A) Expansion I/O Unit for AUD89.00 delivered.  Unfortunately, until I can find some suitable software and cable, it will remain an interesting paper weight.

[pfort]

 

Syswin can work on Windows 7 64 bits.  (Windows virtual PC in Accessories menu)

http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?/topic/29913-omrons-syswin-software/&do=findComment&comment=141579

[Thermo]

On 2/16/2016 at 11:35 AM, pfort said:

 

Syswin can work on Windows 7 64 bits.  (Windows virtual PC in Accessories menu)

http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?/topic/29913-omrons-syswin-software/&do=findComment&comment=141579

Hi pfort and Crossbow,

Thanks for your help gentlemen.  I now have my PLC, and a Chinese USB-to-CPM1A cable and driver disk is winging its way from Hong Kong (fingers crossed).  The PLC and expansion unit arrived with most of the wiring loom from the cabinet it came out of,  most with 4 digit Graphoplast wire numbers attached.  So, I have lots of hook-up wire and wire numbers to use in my home-brewed project!

I also have a Windows XP virtual machine up and running under Windows Virtual PC (thanks pfort) and Syswin 3.4 installed and apparently fully functional.  It seems to have all the help files and allows me to define and save a Project anyway - that's all I've tried yet.  So far, so good.

Now to start my first PLC program...

Thanks again.

Ian

[BobB]

You will need to keep your fingers crossed with the Chinese cable! Hope you are lucky!

[Thermo]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the advice.  So, where else could I look for something to connect my Win 7 laptop with only USB posts to a CPM1A?

Ian

[BobB]

Omron have the CS1W-CIF31 USB/serial adapter that is not cheap but works with everything. Then there is a serial cable available or you could make one. Omron serial cables are not standard pin outs.

[Thermo]

OK, I was warned!  Received my AMSAMOTION USB-CIF02 "USB to RS232 adapter for Omron PLC CPM1A..." yesterday.  And it doesn't seem to want to install on my Win 7 laptop - surprise, surprise!

I realize this is not the sort of device professionals would even waste their time on but , as mentioned, I'm just a tinkerer wanting to play around with a second-hand PLC without spending loads of money.  The cable came with a mini-CD that seems to have lots of drivers on it but there is a lot of Chinese language in the file and folder names that may be upsetting my laptop that doesn't speak Chinese (as far as I know).  May I ask if anyone reading this has managed to get this device working satisfactorily?

Bob, I'm loath to purchase anything from Omron Australia/Asia Pacific.  After numerous attempts to contact them, trying to purchase legal software and cables for my CPM1A, I finally received a phone call (I believe triggered by me requesting CX-Programmer from the Omron Europe website!).  This guy didn't want to know about someone with an obsolete PLC.  He insisted CX-Programmer can't be purchased separately from CX-One (Although Omron Europe still list it separately).  All he could offer me was a 'deal' to buy a new CP1E plus CX-One Lite for over A$1000.  Tinkerers need not apply...

I have now written my first program - a whole 5 networks but with three timers, a MUL function and using the two Analog Value 'pots' on the front panel.  I'm quite proud of it but until I can sort out my cable issue, we may never know if it works.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Thermo
spelling

[Crossbow]

He is right, CX-One is the suite which includes CX-Programmer.  It's not sold separately.  There used to be a CX-Programmer Lite which only did the micro PLCs, but don't know if that's still available.  

Regardless, in the US they still take calls on all PLCs, even the obsolete antiques.

As for the cable, I would check places like Ebay for a real one.  Either CQM1-CIF02 or get a CPM1-CIF01 and you can make a serial cable for it.

[BobB]

If you look for a USB/RS232 converter with this mobs chipset it will probably work http://www.ftdichip.com/. The Omron one has this chipset. Then obtain the interface unit as above. CX-One is the only way the software is sold in Australia - dictated by Singapore and Japan. CX-One is not cheap but support and updates are free - do not ask about Schneider, AB, Siemens and the like - big bucks every year! Just got my quote from Schneider - last Modicon PLC I used is the last one I will use! Nothing to do with tinkerers - the CPM1A has not been manufactured or supported for years now - I took 11 of them out of a job and threw them in the bin! They will talk to you about the old PLC but cannot offer much support or any repair options as it is DEAD. The batteries may be available but that is about all.

Edited March 6, 2016 by BobB

[Thermo]

Many thanks Bob.

Ian

[Thermo]

Hi again Bob & others,

OK, I now realize I have purchased a long obsolete PLC that was basically worthless and I'm pushing 'possibility' up hill trying to get it to work.  (But hey, you see these things on eBay and think, "I've always wanted to have a play with one of these" and the rest, as they say...

But I've had a bit of a win (but only a bit, mind you).  It seems the AMSAMOTION UBS adapter installed itself as a generic USB 2.0 device.  So I tried to attach to it in Win XP mode under Virtual PC, only to have it fail repeatedly, along with all other USB devices on the host Win 7 machine.  Much Googling later and I found a thread suggesting going into the BIOS and disabling USB 3.0 functionality.  After doing this and restarting both the host machine and Win XP mode, the generic USB 2.0 deviuce not only let me 'attach' to it but prompted me to insert the CD disc and proceeded to (presumably) install itself correctly.  Yoo-Hoo!

So I can now attempt to connect to the CPM1A via this cable/software.  The adapter TX LEDs flickers promisingly when I try the SYSWIN Project|Communication "Test PLC" function.  But it responds with "Connect failed" or "No response from the PLC".  I believe the 'shoe-box' PLCs are always Unit 00?  And I'm pretty sure the adapter is on COM3 of the Virtual PC.  So can anyone help with some protocol settings I could try to get my PLC to talk, please?  Or any other things to try?  Is there a way to get the PLC to revert to some default protocol settings that I could then try in SYSWIN?

[BobB]

00? You will have to set up comms that are programmed in the PLC.  Chack the manual - there is a DIP switch that sets the comms to a standard setting then you should be able to set that up in the software. You will have to have the correct conms port number as well.

[Thermo]

Hi again Bob and others,

Thank you for your patience and ongoing support to me here at "Obsolete Automation Inc."  Regarding the unit number, yes I did misread the manual.  I read the 'CV" section on unit numbers rather than the 'C' series section (image attached).  I have however been reading manuals assiduously and learning lots along the way .

Yesterday I spent about an hour trying the SYSWIN Project|Communication "Test PLC" function with the four 'standard' protocols (ASCII 7 bit even/odd parity & JIS 8 bit even/odd parity, all at 9600 baud) with every unit address form 00 to 31 - to no avail.

I presume what I have on my CPM1A is a "Direct CPU Peripheral Port", as highlighted on the attached image?  So therefore my host comms settings and unit number are set in DM settings?  In particular, DM6650 to 6653 incl.?  

My reading of the hardware manual shows that "The user program and memory area data in the CPU Unit are backed up by either one of the following methods.  Flash Memory:  User program, read-only DM area (DM 6144 to DM 6599), and PC Setup area (DM 6600 to DM 6655).  Internal Capacitor: DM areas other than the above, HR area, AR area, and
Counter area."  

So, my host comms settings are still held in Flash Memory, no matter how long the unit has been powered down?  And if my settings are some strange combination of uncommon settings I may never be able to communicate with it?

If all this is correct, is there a way (like some secret Omron handshake etc?) to clear to flash memory to all zeros, so that the default settings are restored, i.e. "00: Standard (1 start bit, 7-bit data, even parity, 2 stop bits, 9,600 bps)", and Unit no. 00.  If I've got this all wrong, my apologies for wasting your time.

Regarding my USB adapter cable, I'm sure it's on COM3 as that is the only port selection that results in the TX LED flickering when I do a comms test.  The adapter driver details are attached.  Do these driver names mean anything to anyone outside China?  Or am I flogging a dead horse with this cable?

C & CV Units Numbers.pdf

 

 

C & CV Units Numbers.pdf

Edited March 9, 2016 by Thermo
multiple attachments

[BobB]

Check the manual - I am rusty as on these - but I think there is a DIP switch you can set to set the comms to a default value.

[Thermo]

Sorry Bob.  Forgot to mention this morning - there's no sign of any DIP switches on my CPM1A PLC (unless you have to open the case to access them?).  Any other ideas on how to return this thing to the factory defaults settings?  Anyone?

Thanks,

Ian

[BobB]

What is the device you have? Does it require a separate RS232 cable as does the Omron interface?

If so the Omron cable is non standard and a standard cable will not work.

Easy to make one though.

[Thermo]

Hi Bob,

The device is all one piece.  USB plug one end, small black box in the middle with TX/TX LEDs and a 20-pin plug that connects to the PLC port on the other end.  Photo below.  Seems quite well made and the AMSAMOTION website, while very difficult to read, seems to list lots of different PLC comms cables etc.  Do those driver names above mean anything to those who speak fluent 'Omron'?

PS:  Seems I've been promoted to the rank of 'Sparky'.  That development will be quite worrying to most of the real sparkies I know!

Edited March 10, 2016 by Thermo
Extra question & PS

[BobB]

There goes that idea! The driver names mean nothing by the way - probably wrtitten by the manufacturer.

[Thermo]

Many thanks for all your help to date, Bob.  Even if the CPM1A remains a novel paperweight, I've learned lots and had some fun writing a program.

Ian

Edited March 10, 2016 by Thermo
spelin' agin...

[gtsuport]

Ian,

I know I am joining this thread late in the game, but had a thought.

You should be able to download the trial version of CX-One.  This is a large file, and it would only work for 30 days.  However, there is an Auto Online function in that software that should be able to sort out the comm parameters for your CPM1A. 

Once you have those parameters, you should be able to enter that information into Syswin and hopefully connect.

If you are unable to locate a download link for the CX-One Trial, let us know and we can provide a link.

Hope this will help.

[BobB]

I am not sure if auto online works with the CPM1A or not - trying to find one to try it. He can post it too me and I will try it for him. We are in touch by PM. I do have some doubts about the Chinese cable but it may be OK.