Mechanicinchief Posted June 3, 2016 Report Posted June 3, 2016 Ok let's see if I can make this intelligible enough for somebody to pick up what I'm missing. I've got some NT20M's running some old machines. They're becoming hard to get. Did enough homework in here to find that the NT20s can be used as a more modern version and the program converted and transferred to the newer unit. I got an NT20s to work with, using NTSS 233 got it to do the conversion from v4 to 5. The support tool recognized the resulting screen program and loaded it into the NT20s. All good so far, but after the loading is complete the Omron does not start correctly. In the older version, the NT20m's start screen was screen #1 specified in the support tool. (a corporate logo) With the newer NT20s it starts with the internally loaded "Connecting To Host" screen. Study of the problem, if I understand correctly, is that the older screen simply referred to a tag on a screen file to tell it what screen to load at powerup. The newer screen acquires its instruction for what screen to display in a much more complex fashion doing a direct connect to a given memory location on the controlling PC, PT "Notify" and PT "control" area which will tell it what start screen to display. If I understand correctly "Notify" being where the currently displayed screen number is stored and "control" the place where the current instruction from the computer as to what screen to display is stored. Problem is, the original program did not use direct connect, original program was "Direct Connect None". Direct Connect None is an available option in the NTSS utility, but the utility refuses to upload any configuration with that option, claiming it is in conflict with the hardware. It will only allow some form of direct connect enabled file to be loaded to the screen at all. I can dump the memory and the screen will boot showing, "No direct connection is set!" and tells me to set it in the utility. Setting it via the F8 key is simple, but the new screen appears to ignore this and only refer to that notify and control area. How do I get this thing to run non-direct connect and accept the simple instruction to display screen 1 at powerup? -B Quote
Jay Anthony Posted June 3, 2016 Report Posted June 3, 2016 By setting the "Tool Mode" to NT20M, you will cause the NT20S to act like an NT20M. Go back and use the original V4 files and load them to the NT20S. Pages from V020-E3-2 NT20S Touchscreen.pdf V028-E1-1 NTSS Support Tool.pdf Quote
Mechanicinchief Posted June 4, 2016 Author Report Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) I think I tried that already. Everything I tried, it either told me I had the hardware wrong in the tool, or told me to go check the direct settings in the tool, either way the only software I'd managed to get it to load was the 20sV5- which didn't work either. I'll go back and have another whack at it that way then and see if I can find a way to get it to consent to load the original V4. Must have missed something first time around. And thanks. This is an entertainingly obscure area of hardware and programming to work with. I know the info is out there somewhere but finding it is a treasure hunt. -B Edited June 4, 2016 by Mechanicinchief Quote
Jay Anthony Posted June 4, 2016 Report Posted June 4, 2016 Quote By setting the "Tool Mode" to NT20M, you will cause the NT20S to act like an NT20M. You must do the above on the NT20S itself. See first document. Quote
Michael Walsh Posted June 4, 2016 Report Posted June 4, 2016 13 hours ago, Mechanicinchief said: And thanks. This is an entertainingly obscure area of hardware and programming to work with. I know the info is out there somewhere but finding it is a treasure hunt. Yes it is very old and therefore obscure. As soon as you get this up and running again, you should begin to work on planning the upgrade to newer product. Quote
Jay Anthony Posted June 4, 2016 Report Posted June 4, 2016 Y'all are making me feel reeeaaly old.... Quote
Michael Walsh Posted June 5, 2016 Report Posted June 5, 2016 Sorry Jay, not my intention. My intention was to express the need to upgrade his HMI. Quote
Mechanicinchief Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Posted June 6, 2016 On 6/4/2016 at 1:12 PM, Michael Walsh said: Yes it is very old and therefore obscure. As soon as you get this up and running again, you should begin to work on planning the upgrade to newer product. This IS the upgrade to newer product! I got sick of trying to find the rare 20M's on Ebay, the ones we find are near the end of their lives anyway, and I'm the only guy at the plant that knows anything about these things. The plant has no plan to upgrade so I started this project myself since we're dead in the water without them. I'm unable to get at the programming that the robots are using to talk to the NT20m's so my only realistic option at the moment is to find a compatible but at least slightly newer model that can perform the same function without altering anything about the way the robot talks to it. So far as I've been able to tell so far, that limits me to the NT20s. At least those are cheap and plentiful on Ebay and less likely to be conking out due to sheer old-age related semiconductor failure like all out 20m's have been doing. -B Quote
Mechanicinchief Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Posted June 6, 2016 Ok so I tried that again several different ways, still no go. I tried every relevant combination I could find with the 20s set to 20m tool mode. With the tool set to M mode the old 4.2 tool does talk to the panel, but- If I try to load the original screen data it says "direct connection changed" and refuses to. There is an option in there somewhere to convert a non-direct file to direct but programs thus altered do not work. If I use 2.33 to try to load it, with type set to the 20s/20m it accepts that it's talking to a 20m but still refuses to load and says "check if direct access setting is same as PT (confirm) The original screen data is "direct none". The 2.33 tool has a bunch of options under f1 for specifying exactly which model and how it communicates. For 20M's there is an option for "direct none" but it refuses to load that with "check if direct access " again. Frustrating. If I understand what's happening here the unit is refusing any program with "none". It will accept a v4 program set to none and gave me a curious "This program contains unknown functions" warning before it loaded it. Program didn't work. After exiting transmit mode the unit went back to displaying "no direct information is set" screen. -B Quote
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