CC-link & Qn

[Guest Tmu]

Hi, Q06HCPU and 4 pcs QJ61BT11N, CC-link masters. Problem is that GX Dev. allows only these 4 CC-link master cards to set up. Have anyone tried to type these parameters to ladder? Any other way to add more CC-link masters than add another CPU? Thanks Tmu_guest

[antht]

It is possible to enter the parameters manually as you do with the A Series. GX developer just tries to make it easier to enter the parameters. Obviously the problem is that it is limited to 4 CC-Link masters. I am sure it explains how to enter them manually in one of the Q Series manuals. Edited February 24, 2005 by antht

[panic mode]

see SH(NA)080016 manual, 2.2.1 (page 28), detailed setting is in chapter 6.4 (page 144)...

[tmu]

I found that manual at it is written so that 4 pcs is max max. So it seems to be impossible to install more than 4 CC-link master cards even if using ladder-typed set-up parameters instead of GX-developer network-parameters. Thanks, Tmu

[panic mode]

hi tmu, interesting topic... i never had more than 3 CC-Link networks on same CPU so I cannot confirm if 60 masters on one CPU is possible. i'm too short with time to get through manual but if I understand it correctly there should be more than 4 master stations possible on one cpu but with some restrictions (see settings). even if I had time, I wouldn't bother reading if i had no hardware to try it out. did you ask Mitsubishi support to try to set it up in their lab? btw. what are you working on that needs so many networks? are you utilizing each network efficiently? does it have to be one PLC/CPU? does it have to be only one type of network (CC-Link)?

[tmu]

>hi tmu, >interesting topic... i never had more than 3 CC-Link networks on same CPU There is now Q06H+Qj71E71 ethernet and 3 CC-link (QJ61bt11N)masters+ some local i/O's in the rack.. We will add 4th CC-link master quite soon and after that we will? not have easy way to expand CC-links, because of GX-developer nw-parameter window. >so I cannot confirm if 60 masters on one CPU is possible. i'm too short with >time to get through manual but if I understand it correctly there should be >more than 4 master stations possible on one cpu but with some restrictions >(see settings). even if I had time, I wouldn't bother reading if i had no hardware >to try it out. did you ask Mitsubishi support to try to set it up in their lab? No need to use more time and thank you for your time. I am just wondering if this might be possible, because customer would like to know... >btw. what are you working on that needs so many networks? >are you utilizing each network efficiently? does it have to be one PLC/CPU? >does it have to be only one type of network (CC-Link)? Now there is 3 completely separate lines, about 45 station in each line, Qn-PLC's, VFD E500 with CC_link cards, analog modules, T-branches and I/O-modules. 4th line will be installed soon. Basic Idea is to operate most of these lines even if another line (CC-L bus) fails. The efficiency is not the best (st 45/64), but there are also restrictions, number of local PLC's and inverters on the net. The system functionality and fail-situations are the reason. It is impossible to change current "table" because of componen and cable signs. X&Y areas will be in use (CC_link 32*64*4=8192) We still have D, M, B etc. that can be used in CC-link I/O-area in the future. I am not able to use whole 4th CC-l addresses (X,Y) because basic rack needs addresses to modules. 48th is last I can use in 4th CC-L, but I can live with that. In the future: Probibus DP, Modbus TCP, or something like that to this system Another CPU and data exchange between CPU's, because we have E-terminal dual drivers already in use. I have use dual-CPU Q06H-Q06H system with 6 (4+2) CC-links and works, but that data exchange (mostly for HMI-terminals)... I think this is type of question, whick is not solved by reading manuals, or calling to Mits. support. There are other and easier possibilities to expand. Thank you kindly for your time panic mode tmu

[fae-san]

First of all you can access buffer memory in all Q Series PLC's using the U\G device which also supports accessing bits, U\G.b. If your CC-Link network gets large you might want to consider this as you will run out of bits potentially. The easy setup for CC-Link is via CPU parameter settings. However, as you have discovered you can only set four modules in CPU parameters. Using the command GP.RLPASET you can set CC-Link parameters for any module loaded in the system. You can find this command documented in the CC-Link Master manual. 45 stations out of 64 not efficient…You have to realize what you are setting up here and the capabilities that CC-Link gives you. You can do everything from turning on a bit to programming your PLC over this network. As modules have more capabilities an increase of words and bits are required. CC-Link version 2.0 BTW doubles the amount of data that can be moved around on the network. E-Series data exchange using dual drivers is NOT very efficient. If the second CPU is loaded in the same rack then you can share data much more efficiently via shared memory or using special commands to read/write between PLCs. If second CPU is in another rack I suggest you look into using Ethernet, NET/H, CC-LINK or C24 to move data between PLCs unless you have a very small amount of data and it is not time critical. Dual driver data sharing is ok between dissimilar products when you have a low amount of data you are sharing.

[tmu]

>First of all you can access buffer memory in all Q Series >PLC's using the U\G >device which also supports accessing >bits, U\G.b. If your CC-Link network gets >large you might >want to consider this as you will run out of bits potentially. >First of all you... Pls. You sound like a teacher. I am not sure if I understood correctly, but run out of bits seems to be more or less impossible. I have B,W,D,X,Y etc... That buffer-idea is already in use because I read station number and other data to CPU from master/local station. >The easy setup for CC-Link is via CPU parameter settings. However, as you >have discovered you can only set four modules in CPU parameters. Using the >command GP.RLPASET you can set CC-Link parameters for any module >loaded in the system. You can find this command >documented in the CC-Link >Master manual. Thanks. That is the command I was asking... >45 stations out of 64 not efficient… It is, because we need fail safe system. Totally independent parts from other. CPU and E-terminals and common components. We rather think separate cabling even if there is possible to install stand by masters and fiber cables, RPT/T-braches etc. >You have to realize what you are setting up here and the capabilities that CC->Link gives you. You can do everything from turning on a bit to programming >your PLC over this network. I am aware of those and using it only with Qn and QnA. >As modules have more capabilities an increase of words and bits are required. >CC-Link version 2.0 BTW doubles the amount of data that can be moved around >on the network. That is not necessary, for now. >E-Series data exchange using dual drivers is NOT very efficient. If the second >CPU is loaded in the same rack then you can share data much more efficiently >via shared >memory or using special commands to read/write between PLCs. >If second CPU is in another rack I suggest you look into using Ethernet, NET/H, >CC-LINK or C24 to move data >between PLCs unless you have a very small >amount of data >and it is not time critical. But those other PLC's are S7! Only Eth left and I have used Fixed buffer communication, but E-dataexchange is in my opinnion easier to do, because I do not type S7 code. I have no problem sending/receiving data via those networks when Mitsubishi PLC's. >Dual driver data sharing is ok between dissimilar products when you have a low >amount of data you are sharing. Agree. Tmu

[fae-san]

I suggest that you normally use X/Y for your CC-Link I/O bits. It is very possible to run out of them with four networks. You can next use M's, B's D's etc. Using direct buffer memory access you will never run out of bits because you are not utilizing any of the PLC normal device memory. I was not saying that using 45 stations out of 64 on a network is inefficient. I was disagreeing with that comment. CC-Link is a network that covers everything from discreet control to a true control network. Using the GP.RLPASET command will solve the problems of setting more than four modules. If things are more dynamic in your configuration of the network this method might be the better way to go. If you need to exchange data with S7’s then I’d first look into Profibus or Ethernet unless I had a low amount of data to transfer. I do not consider data exchange in the E-Series terminal to be an efficient way to do this. It might be easier but it is no where near as reliable as using a network. Just wanting to make sure you are aware of the risks involved.