Q-Series - Operation Error 4100

[d4rkm4n]

Hi guys.

I found error on PLC and from PLC diagnostic I found this Operation Error 4100 as per attach picture.

FYI, there is no SD card mount onto this PLC. I wonder what is ATA card.

This error wont affect the operation. Any advise on what to check?

 

This ladder is pop up when I clicked, error jump.

 

Thanks.

[Gambit]

An ATA card is a type of CF card which could be used with the first series of Q series CPU's. Now SD cards are used.

The error should only occur when File read or File write command is used. Isn't this instruction below the screencapture you send?

[d4rkm4n]

53 minutes ago, Gambit said:

An ATA card is a type of CF card which could be used with the first series of Q series CPU's. Now SD cards are used.

The error should only occur when File read or File write command is used. Isn't this instruction below the screencapture you send?

Hi Gambit,

Thanks for you reply.

What do you mean by File read/write? Is it the same as normal read/write like "MOV D1 D2" or is it read/write to/from ATA card?

Sorry I am not familiar with this instruction. 

Btw, why there is error when read/write command is used?

Thanks.

Edited May 19, 2022 by d4rkm4n

[Gambit]

It's a command for reading values from a csv file from a CF flash ATA or SD card.

You only get the error if there is no SD card.

The instructions are FREAD & FWRITE (sp.fread sp.fwrite).

But if these instructions are not used in the program it is strange you are getting this error.

[d4rkm4n]

On 5/19/2022 at 4:24 PM, Gambit said:

It's a command for reading values from a csv file from a CF flash ATA or SD card.

You only get the error if there is no SD card.

The instructions are FREAD & FWRITE (sp.fread sp.fwrite).

But if these instructions are not used in the program it is strange you are getting this error.

I believe there is no SD card attached.

Any advise on what should I check?

Some background,

1. There are around  7 PLC connected together through MelsecNET.

2. All PLC indicate this error. ERR LED lit up but not affecting sequence.

3. LED ERR will turn off after reset and come back on later, maybe after the instruction trigger.

 

[d4rkm4n]

Sorry for bumping old thread. I still looking for solution. 

[Crossbow]

4100 is a generic operation error... in your case it has nothing to do with a memory card or a network...

Look at the FIRST line of the error message... THE INSTRUCTION CANNOT PROCESS THE CONTAINED DATA.  When it gives you a program name and step number, it's a program error.

The instruction it is highlighting is having an error with the input data... so what is put in via K4X460 does not work in the DBIN instruction... check the status of your inputs starting at X460 and see what it is trying to do.  And look at the help for DBIN to see what about it can cause the 4100 error.

[d4rkm4n]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:04 AM, Crossbow said:

4100 is a generic operation error... in your case it has nothing to do with a memory card or a network...

Look at the FIRST line of the error message... THE INSTRUCTION CANNOT PROCESS THE CONTAINED DATA.  When it gives you a program name and step number, it's a program error.

The instruction it is highlighting is having an error with the input data... so what is put in via K4X460 does not work in the DBIN instruction... check the status of your inputs starting at X460 and see what it is trying to do.  And look at the help for DBIN to see what about it can cause the 4100 error.

Thanks for your input.

I have checked the program and the input is coming from BCD signal from weigher. 

I found no abnormality on the weigher side. 

I also found as attached in the manual:

The error will coming "When values other than 0 to 9 are specified to any digits of (S)", what will causing this? The input 10 will always give numeric right?

Btw, also mentioned, error can be suppressed by turning ON SM722, if I turn ON the SM722, will the instruction still works?

 

EDIT: Just checked, if abnormal inputs from BCD, the (S) will in minus (-). But as per picture, current (S) value is 0.

Edited March 19, 2024 by d4rkm4n

[pturmel]

It is more than likely that you get noise on those signal lines when they change, which briefly, occasionally, yield an invalid combination.  You will need to disable the error and use a timer to debounce the value.

[d4rkm4n]

12 hours ago, pturmel said:

It is more than likely that you get noise on those signal lines when they change, which briefly, occasionally, yield an invalid combination.  You will need to disable the error and use a timer to debounce the value.

I will try to disable the error once the process is stopp, btw, how do I permanently ON SM722? Is it back to OFF if I power cycle or restart the PLC.

What do you think is the best way to debounce BCD value for weigher? I am afraid they are using the value to stop some sequence, I have not fully study the program yet due the writing looks so complex. =\

[pturmel]

1 hour ago, d4rkm4n said:

best way

I don't have any specific recommendation for Mitsubishis.  In general, I would use a couple extra registers to hold valid conversions and look for repeat valid values before passing to a "final" value register.  That might be enough to not need a timer.

[Crossbow]

Not sure what you meant by 'the 10 input'.  But that's 2 digits. 

BCD is 0-9 only.  So each group of 4 inputs MUST make a valid number 0-9.  K5X460 means 5 digits, X460-463, X464-467, X468-X46B, X46C-X46F, and X470-473

0001 through 1001

If for example your inputs are 1010, that's 10,  that's not legal for a single digit of BCD.

Make sure the data on those 2 inputs makes 5 valid BCD values.

[d4rkm4n]

So I have tried to disable the error by turning on SM722 but the error still showing at PLC diagnostic.

Is there anything else I can try?

 

 

[Gambit]

The Error is now at another location. DINT so in some scan D54 didn't contain a real/float number it could convert.

probably at startup. 

Can you reset the PLC. then put it in stop. put a real value in D54(D55) and than put the PLC in RUN ?

[d4rkm4n]

18 hours ago, Gambit said:

The Error is now at another location. DINT so in some scan D54 didn't contain a real/float number it could convert.

probably at startup. 

Can you reset the PLC. then put it in stop. put a real value in D54(D55) and than put the PLC in RUN ?

Do you mean not related to SM722? Since I already disabled the error flag, it should be turn on for all right?

Currently production is running, so cannot stop yet for now.

Btw, I have tried to reset before, once reset, the error is gone, as long the machine is not running, the error is not coming, once start up, the error come.

 

[Gambit]

In that case sometime a value is written in D54 D55 (  float is 2 registers) which can't be converted into a BIN 32 Bits nr.

most likely D55 is used somewhere as not everyone realises floats need two registers 

[d4rkm4n]

2 hours ago, Gambit said:

In that case sometime a value is written in D54 D55 (  float is 2 registers) which can't be converted into a BIN 32 Bits nr.

most likely D55 is used somewhere as not everyone realises floats need two registers 

I have checked for D54 and D55.

Nothing else is using the register beside this conversion to be used at DINT.

 

 

[d4rkm4n]

Hi guys, I still looking for counter measure for this issue. =\

[d4rkm4n]

Bump. Still looking for solution for this issue.

[SergeyBorchshev]

Crossbow gave you the answer in March. Your k5X460 must be 0 to 9 only anything else will give you 4100 error when you converting BCD to BIN. Where those inputs actually landed to?

Second error is not related to first one, DINT The floating decimal point type data you are converting was outside the -2147483648 to 2147483647 range. Check the value of D54 in 32-bit format when you get an error next time.

[d4rkm4n]

On 12/09/2024 at 11:38 PM, SergeyBorchshev said:

Crossbow gave you the answer in March. Your k5X460 must be 0 to 9 only anything else will give you 4100 error when you converting BCD to BIN. Where those inputs actually landed to?

Second error is not related to first one, DINT The floating decimal point type data you are converting was outside the -2147483648 to 2147483647 range. Check the value of D54 in 32-bit format when you get an error next time.

Thank you for highlighting this!

So focus on the error, I completely miss this was not same error. I will check further on the new error.

[jeva8401]

d4rkm4n, were you ever able to solve your issue? My Q00CPU is giving me the same 4100 error. PLC is stuck in error mode with flashing red light. 

[Gambit]

15 hours ago, jeva8401 said:

d4rkm4n, were you ever able to solve your issue? My Q00CPU is giving me the same 4100 error. PLC is stuck in error mode with flashing red light. 

have a look at the instrcution at the error location post that part of the code

[jeva8401]

On 12/30/2024 at 11:34 PM, Gambit said:

have a look at the instrcution at the error location post that part of the code

Sorry if the images are bad quality. I'm using GX Developer. I might just have to call Mitsubishi. "The machine just stopped out of nowhere", our operator says. The HMI is also frozen. The error jump goes to sequence number 1689.

 

 

[Gambit]

14 hours ago, jeva8401 said:

Sorry if the images are bad quality. I'm using GX Developer. I might just have to call Mitsubishi. "The machine just stopped out of nowhere", our operator says. The HMI is also frozen. The error jump goes to sequence number 1689.

 

 

Can't see the pictures