LONG: Q for Canadians re: salary surveys + "what am I worth?"

[wildswing]

Hey fellas, Sorry for the length of this post. Please let me explain (vent) a little and then ask a couple questions. Admins, if this line of questioning is not allowed, please delete. My workplace is going through, for lack of a better phrase, some maturing pains. We're a non-unionized team based industrial manufacturing facility. Over the years, some employees, like myself, have moved into newly created positions that were not part of the original team design, but were developed based on the needs of the business. Unfortunately, while these newly created positions came with increased responsibility and accountability, our salary structure was not modified to suite. In short, we took on greater responsibilities for either the same or, in the case of those that came from an on-shift role, less pay. All of us made the move for reasons other than money, like career, family time, etc. Now, with an improving local economy providing other opportunities, many have begun to question our "everybody's paid on the same scale" concept and attrition amongst the trades and other skilled areas has become an issue, so the company is reviewing our entire compensation system with an eye on internal and external pay equity. As part of their investigation, we've been asked, "what do you think is fair compensation for your role?" It sounds like this may turn into individual negotiations. The company has purchased salary surveys from Watson Wyatt, The Institute and OACETT and they've asked us to look through them to see where we see ourselves. I've looked through the first two and neither have a job description that resembles a controls specialist like me, so I've been forced to patch together pieces from various job descriptions. I have not yet seen the OACETT survey. Now on to my questions: #1 - Is anyone aware of a Canadian salary survey for techy people like us? #2 - Not sure if this kind of question is kosher on the forum or if it can be realistically answered, but I'll run it up the flag pole to see if anyone salutes anyway. There's only two other facilities locally with which to draw a comparison, but their traditional work environments and corporate cultures are so different from ours that comparing them to us is very difficult. Basically, I have no idea what fair compensation for my job is. I know that location and local job market pressures makes a difference. Those two things aside, I'd appreciate some feedback from forum members. Can you please take a stab at telling me what fair compensation would be? What could someone like me doing what I do, expect to be paid in your workplace or local area? You can send a PM rather then reply to the thread if you wish. Keep in mind that I'm currently paid the same as a guy that drives a forklift. This is me and my job… 1. Graduate of a 3 yr Electrical Engineering Technology program in '92 (3.9 gpa). 2. Haven't lost that need to learn yet. Always taking courses. Not all full credit. Some short multi-day training gigs. Some on my own and some through current employer... - Rockwell CLX basic - Rockwell PLC 5 upgrading - Rockwell 1394 GML - Wonderware Intouch - Networks for process control - SPC (statistical process control) - 2 x PID process control workshops - AB drives - fibre optics - power system controls 3. I've been with my current employer for 10+ years (since inception - assisted in commissioning of the facility) - 6 years on shift as operator and shift electrical maintenance. The original team structure did not include dedicated maintenance roles. I was an operator with an electrical and automation background. If there was a breakdown, we changed hats and fixed it. That eventually changed and my final 4 years on shift was dedicated to electrical duties. - with our "team" structure we do not have the resources (or restrictions of) an engineering department, so projects are given to the individuals. While on shift my biggest project (best feather in my cap) was replacement of an oem flying saw servo system. My responsibilities included, purchasing (choosing the right hardware), design, programming, installation, commissioning and ongoing optimization. I'm still the go-to guy. Pretty neat to be able to do it all. Project was done by myself and 2 other apprentices. AB tech support (here for start up) was amazed at how we were allowed to work like this. He said he's never seen such a well executed project before anywhere. FYI, the system worked like a charm. Tech support helped with a little tuning but mostly just watched. - I almost completed my Industrial Electrician apprenticeship but put that on the back burner when I took my current position. - the last 4+ years I've been our process control specialist with primary ownership of the facility's PLCs ( 8 x PLC5s, 3 x SLC 5/04's) and Wonderware Intouch HMIs (10 nodes). All 12 electrical guys have full access to PLCs and are assigned programming tasks (not just troubleshooting) and a few others do HMI work as well, but I'm the lead guy. I assist in job assignments and planning. I carry a cell phone when away from the facility and am available for calls 24 hrs a day. I don't get many calls anymore. We have no formal on-call rules. 4 times a year I'm the weekend call guy for the entire facility, not just process control stuff. - our team concept requires that we all flex outside of our core ownerships. I have been or still am a member of our health and safety, yearly salary survey, social and retirement savings committees, as well as provide occasional coverage for shift operations and maintenance folks when they are required to leave their post to do their own outa-the-box stuff. I also cover for our IT guy and my area owner (supervisor) when either is on vacation. 4. I was previously employed by our local community college as lab tech and part time instructor, a building automation contractor doing energy conservation stuff, and an EE firm as a draftsman/technician. From your perspective...What's my job worth? What am I worth? Ballpark estimates (min, max, mid) are most welcome. Again for the sake of privacy, you can send me a PM rather then reply to the thread if you wish. Thanks for letting me ramble! Edited June 23, 2006 by wildswing

[vanilla_gorilla]

Well not sure what part of Canada you are in, but your job sounds similar, with a little LESS responsibility than my current job. 3 year Tech Papers and Inter-Provincial Millwright, over 15 years automation experience, what am I worth ?? Not sure, what am I paid...Low 50's CDN.

[geniusintraining]

Wildswing, I have noticed that you have posted the same question on another site...just wondering are you going to go for the highest bidder? good luck... In my opinion... you are worth, what you think you are, if you are not happy, then its time to move on, don't sell yourself short

[gravitar]

Well, one outside observation I made from your description is that you seem to be working for a progressive, forward-thinking, stable, perhaps even ENJOYABLE workplace.. (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) Now we all say its the $$ the counts at the end of the week, but the fact of the matter is it does count for something when you're working somewhere that is non-hostile and on a reasonably stable footing. I was recently laid off from a job that paid well, but was HOSTILE at best, and the company was on shaky financial ground (hence the layoffs). I couldn't have been happier when they called me up to tell me I was on "The List". And I did my best to hold back the laughter a week later when my former boss called me to ask if I wanted to come back! Now with that said, if a controls engineer is paid the same as a hi-lo driver, that is a bit too egalitarian for my tastes. Unless this guy is the Mario Andretti of fork trucks :) It does atleast sound like the company is willing to adress this discrepancy. So how much SHOULD you be getting paid? Well since you're right outside Michigan I'll base this on my own observations.. In a major population area like Detroit/Windsor or Grand Rapids, you should expect to make atleast $65-70K US. Comparable jobs in northern MI seem to go for somewhat less, $50-55K. Maybe that's because the market is less competitive up there, I don't know. The exchange rate is almost equal so that's nearly a wash. With your experience and continuing training, you may be able to get even more than that. If they're paying you less than $50K Can, I would say something's amiss.

[wildswing]

Thanks very much for the replies fellas. It's very much appreciated. You're right. It is a good place to work and intangibles like that do account for something. To your last point, part of our investigation is to examine internal pay equity as well.Once again, thanks for the replies. Back to my first question. Is anyone aware of a Canadian salary survey for controls people? Edited June 26, 2006 by wildswing

[Camel]

WOW!! He (wildswing) almost nailed my job description to a tee. The only difference is I train all the electricians and electronics guys here (10), and I do upkeep on an entire division of my company. You guys are talking about getting paid 50-55k!! With overtime I might make the mid 30's. I need to move north......

[gravitar]

Well umm. actually.. I would put $50-55 at the BOTTOM end of the scale for an experienced controls guy in the Detroit area. $65-75+ is more the norm. (Please don't take this as boasting, I'm just sharing honest observations!) So I guess you'd also have to factor in any differences in the cost of living to make an even comparison.. And I haven't a clue how that compares. By the way, I don't know if you've ever been to Detroit but lemme give you a hint.. We don't choose to live here for the lovely weather, and it ain't exactly a social/cultural mecca either :)